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Post by Ultra the HedgeToaster on Oct 26, 2010 12:53:25 GMT
I'm with you mate, I LOVE the 3D games and HATE it when people say that Sega can't make Sonic games anymore or that Sega should let him die. If they think that Sonic should die there obviously not true Sonic fans. I agree with you on that one, though of course there are fans who like the 2D games more than the 3D ones, so I respect that ... Though constantly reading videogame articles about Sonic games beginning with "Sonic 3D games usually suck, but can this one do it better?" is generally very annoying. But I can't believe people who say "Sonic must die!" are fans of Sonic at all. That just makes no sense to me.
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Post by ontels on Oct 26, 2010 20:31:56 GMT
I think they mean the franchise not the character, still pretty bad thoue.
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Post by rogerfromimp on Oct 26, 2010 22:31:06 GMT
Yeah, Sega is a lot more then just Sonic. Man, I sitll gotta find a Sega Saturn somewhere, or get these japenese Playstation 2 remakes of Sega genesis games.
Anyway, I like both 2d and 3d Sonic games, grew up with both. In fact, it's mostly the Game Gear games I grew up with so I even have a soft spot for those. And Sonic 3 and Knuckles and Sonic adventure are both almost equal on my list of favorite Sonic games.
But at this point I mostly play the games for parody purposes, so when all is said and done, I prefer games like Shadow the hedgehog. Really, really, REALLY bad, filled with plot holes and ridiculous amounts of "Hey this is what kids think is cool, right?"
That was a classic. Goldmine for parodies.
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Post by Eyz on Oct 27, 2010 8:56:37 GMT
Shadow was hilarious...so I can't dare say he was that "bad". Sonic 2006 on the other hand... :/ Get a modded Saturn to play Pal, Ntsc and Japanese games! You'll only win from this! Like playing arcade fighters & shooters Jap games, the few Pal exclusive original ogames (like Swagman!) and RPG&action games in English
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Post by ontels on Oct 27, 2010 10:29:21 GMT
Why didn't you like Sonic 2006?
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Post by frobman on Oct 27, 2010 10:45:14 GMT
It was glitch ridden, there was that Sonic/Elise relationship that was awkwardly done, the way Silver was portrayed in that game (as opposed to his later appearances. Yes, even his Archie Comics appearances were better), the story was pretty silly and trying to be too serious for a Sonic game, the jarring difference in character designs between Sonic and the humans, and lots of other reasons that others can explain better.
All those reasons make it prime parody material.
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Post by Eyz on Oct 27, 2010 11:59:45 GMT
I'd say: It wasn't really Sonic-ysh! I mean, the arcade experience wasn't there, the gameplay didn't show any quality (even Shadow's more playable than that!), just a huge lackbuster experience! It's like bad fanfic at its best + vaguely cliché Japanese RPG feel and look + some horrible long legged creatures barely looking lke Sonic & co.
Plus, the most important part, it was called Sonic The hedgehog! Like ti was the rightful and only good successor! ot a spinoff, nothing like that, just Sonic. And the anniversary game too! Ugh... We're pretty far from SA2 anniversary feel (fun multiplayer, tons of unlockables+downloables at least on the original DC version, Green Hill in 3D as ultimate achievement to obtain..)
And simply the game lacked one important fact: "Fun".
But otherwise, yes, it's good material for parody!
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Post by ontels on Oct 27, 2010 14:25:33 GMT
Frobmans points=
Glitch ridden= there were just as many glitches in Sonic Aventure which lots of people like
Sonic/Elise= why would you say it's awkward, didn't seem out of the ordinery to me
Silvers portrayel= how can you say he was portrayed wrong when this was his first game? That makes no sense
Serious story= I liked the fact that it took itself seriously, it made it one of the best storys in a Sonic game
Humans looking different from Mobians= well ofcourse they look different there from different dimensions! and how come that wasent a issue in other games?
Eyz points=
Wasnt Sonic-ish= it had the loops, speed, homing attacks, springs, rings and all the other stuff other Sonic games have
No quality= what makes you say that? I enjoyed it
bad fanfic= bad fanfic is "Cream kills evrebody" not this game
Japanese cliche RPG feel= maybe a little bit, but isent most things these days?
Long legged creatures that dont look like Sonic= ever sinse his redesighn for "Sonic Adventure" he has loocked like that
pretending to be a successor= well it kinda is
no fun multiplayer and other unlockables= I actually agree the multiplayer wasent as fun as it could have been but it was still allright. I agree that it should have had more things to unlock
not fun= I disagree I licked it
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Post by frobman on Oct 27, 2010 16:06:32 GMT
Well, considering Sonic Adventure was Sonic's first main 3D game (Sonic 3D isn't true 3D, and the Sega Saturn bits I wouldn't be sure count as much), that's a given. But this game came out years later and shouldn't be as glitch ridden. Plus, this game was actually rushed out before it's appointed release date.
As for the relationship, it seemed to have ended up as some sort of romantic plot that was badly written between the both of them. Especially after knowing each other for like, how long? a few hours? A day tops? And how about getting kidnapped more times than Princess Peach in one game alone? Again, others can explain this better than me.
Even if it was Silver's first game, doesn't mean he can't rub people the wrong way. He may not've been that bad at first, but I still say his later appearances have fared better than he had in this game. (Doesn't help that parts of his gameplay wasn't as liked) He was all "I gotta destroy you to save the future" on and on and on and other problems with himself and so. These are downplayed in future appearances.
As for serious, you do know this is a game about a blue, anthropomorphic hedgehog, right? All with simple, fun, almost-not-there plots? Why did it have to be all too serious? (admittedly, Shadow had the best story of the 3, but that's like saying which was the least painful)
By that, I meant that everybody started to look like very realistic humans, like current Square Enix games. They looked a tad cartoony before then, but here it just looks very jarring. Like having a 1990s CGI character in a 2D drawn cartoon.
He meant general Sonic feel. This just felt like anything other than Sonic, just having Sonic slapped on it. It can work better if it was a different series, but not a Sonic one.
A princess has the burden of existance placed in her, had a rough life, becomes instant friends with the main character, became his main priority, saved him from death and hogged the screen time. Sounds like fanfic material to me. The reset button plot made it sound like they knew it was a bad story and they couldn't start from scratch in the end.
Not everything has a Japanese RPG cliche feel. And it doesn't work for everything, either.
Oh, come on. This game made Sonic look like a Basket Ball player compared to his other appearances!
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Post by kingdumbheartness on Oct 27, 2010 16:31:50 GMT
The Real Problem With Silver: Silver:"Hey Look a Dark Looking Scary guy....i wonder if he wants to tell us something." Mephiles:I look dark and untrustworthy but still, the reason the world looks like this is because of a blue hedgehog. Silver: I Instantly believe this story and trust you, generic dark person i only met just now... take me to the past.. TEN Hours Later Silver: That Dark Scary person was wrong...how can this be....well anyway....I'd better go back......TO THE FUTURE
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Post by Ultra the HedgeToaster on Oct 27, 2010 17:57:18 GMT
"Silver better in later games"Can't say anything about that - I can't play Sonic Rivals, don't have a PSP. Or was there any other game he was in? (asides from the Olympics, of course) "Glitch ridden" -Ah, yes. No way of denying that. It's really really buggy, and it indeed is frustrating when Rouge / Knuckles get stuck and can't leap off from a wall for 12674th time, or Sonic flies off into his doom when he's supposed to take a pre-determined path. And that was no doubt the main reason the majority of people didn't like this game. It's very sad, it could have been avoided if they just gave the developers more time! I can only say this: Fact 1: Two or three months prior to the game's release, I played a demo at the "Games Convention'06" in Leipzig - the tag on the demo-game said it was only 50% finished. Of course I can't tell if that demo was the most up-to-date thing they had, but it would explain a lot. Fact 2: The game was announced as a launch title for the PS3. I guess that's why the game was rushed, they had to get it done in time. eyz: "It wasn't really Sonic-ysh!"Hm.... that's something that every Sonic fan has to judge for themselves. For me, at the time, this was THE second(?)-best Sonic game I had ever played up to that point, I had basically waited 3 years for a game reminescent of "Sonic Adventure 2" - and I even bought an Xbox 360 for ~300 bucks only so I could play this game. And even looking back, this game sparks only positive images in my mind. Frobman: "the story was pretty silly and trying to be too serious for a Sonic game"Eh, again, debatable. While I can make fun of it (repetitive Elise kidnappings = "capture the flag"-tournament, lol), I really enjoyed the overall "experience", as well as the athmosphere of the game. But that's because I like the "trying to be serious" aspect in Sonic games, heck, that's what got me into the Sonic series with SA2 in the first place. Conclusion:So, again, proof that not all Sonic fans like the same aspects of the series. We could debate further, but I'm not sure if it would lead anywhere - Being a fan, my reasons for liking a certain game don't have to be purely rational, so I suppose it comes down to "you have your opinions, I have mine". Perhaps if we would go into a deeper discussion, maybe we should split this off into a new thread "Your opinion is different from mine! Governor of California, kill him!"
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Post by frobman on Oct 27, 2010 18:00:43 GMT
Well, I barely hear about anybody admitting to liking the game, so you could see why I'd be surprise if anybody argued otherwise.
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Post by kingdumbheartness on Oct 27, 2010 18:04:03 GMT
I Sort of liked Sonic 2006, apart from the fact that i died from not gripping onto the walls as Rouge/Knuckles all of the time...
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Post by ontels on Oct 27, 2010 18:05:55 GMT
Well, considering Sonic Adventure was Sonic's first main 3D game (Sonic 3D isn't true 3D, and the Sega Saturn bits I wouldn't be sure count as much), that's a given. But this game came out years later and shouldn't be as glitch ridden. Plus, this game was actually rushed out before it's appointed release date. As for the relationship, it seemed to have ended up as some sort of romantic plot that was badly written between the both of them. Especially after knowing each other for like, how long? a few hours? A day tops? And how about getting kidnapped more times than Princess Peach in one game alone? Again, others can explain this better than me. Even if it was Silver's first game, doesn't mean he can't rub people the wrong way. He may not've been that bad at first, but I still say his later appearances have fared better than he had in this game. (Doesn't help that parts of his gameplay wasn't as liked) He was all "I gotta destroy you to save the future" on and on and on and other problems with himself and so. These are downplayed in future appearances. As for serious, you do know this is a game about a blue, anthropomorphic hedgehog, right? All with simple, fun, almost-not-there plots? Why did it have to be all too serious? (admittedly, Shadow had the best story of the 3, but that's like saying which was the least painful) By that, I meant that everybody started to look like very realistic humans, like current Square Enix games. They looked a tad cartoony before then, but here it just looks very jarring. Like having a 1990s CGI character in a 2D drawn cartoon. He meant general Sonic feel. This just felt like anything other than Sonic, just having Sonic slapped on it. It can work better if it was a different series, but not a Sonic one. A princess has the burden of existance placed in her, had a rough life, becomes instant friends with the main character, became his main priority, saved him from death and hogged the screen time. Sounds like fanfic material to me. The reset button plot made it sound like they knew it was a bad story and they couldn't start from scratch in the end. Not everything has a Japanese RPG cliche feel. And it doesn't work for everything, either. Oh, come on. This game made Sonic look like a Basket Ball player compared to his other appearances! Maybe your right, but it still didn't deterent to much enjoyment from me. Falling in love in hours and then getting kidnapped is the norm for allmost every peice of childrens media these days, you can't single this game out for that. I still don't think Silver is as bad as some other character, like Amy for instance who has the nearlly the same problem with regonising hedgehogs. Just because it's unrealistic dosent mean it can't be serious, it's like saying "The Lord of the Rings" can't be serious because it's got Hobbits in it. It's good that there making the world and people in it more realistic, just shows how advanced gaming is getting. It felt like Sonic to me when I was racing throue a levall and blowing up robots. I can see were your coming from and how some people might think thats bad, but most of it was good for me. I do think it works for this thoue, it makes it feel more serious which I know some people don't like but I do. I really don't see it, want to put a comparrison up?
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Post by ontels on Oct 27, 2010 18:07:23 GMT
Well, I barely hear about anybody admitting to liking the game, so you could see why I'd be surprise if anybody argued otherwise. I think it's because this game has a sought of "Nostalgia critic" effect on it. Bythat I mean that people hear it's bad and then themselves think it's bad without giving it a chance.
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